Nils Gaup on Images of a Nordic Drama
Courtesy of Nils Gaup
After doing many fiction films in his career, Academy Award-nominated director Nils Gaup (Pathfinder) makes his documentary debut in Images of a Nordic Drama In the film, art collector Haakon Mehren finds a collection of paintings from overlooked artist Asksel Waldemarr Johnson. Mehren finds a purpose in showcasing these works that influence many, but Gaup underlies the reasons and power that the National Gallery has in obscuring this chapter of history.
Images of a Nordic Drama, made its International Premiere at 2022 Hot Docs. Gaup recently spoke with me via zoom before the film’s screening about discovering Asksel Waldemarr Johnson, telling stories based on real life events, and the state of institutions.
- NOTE: This conversation is edited & condensed for clarity, & contains spoiler alerts. -
EF: Thank you for bringing this colorful portrait of art to Hot Docs, Nils. What got you into making your first feature documentary after doing many fiction films like Pathfinder?
NG: I thought that making a documentary would be very easy. I was planning to shoot the whole thing for like half a year, but it took five years. So my conclusion is that it's so much easier to make a [fiction] feature movie than to make a documentary. That's really hard because you can't plan anything. You never know if you have a story or not, you never know if you'd get the images that you want to have. So it's quite chaotic, but also really fascinating on making movies
EF: How has your experience in telling stories based on real life events like The Last King, elevated your experience in your first documentary experience?
NG: I always wanted to make movies based on a true story because I'm interested in history. I'm interested in human beings in general. Fr me, a true story is a true story. You can go to the sources, and you can read about it. So for me, to make the documentary is a natural step to do because I'm still in the true story kind of thing. I guess that's the reason why I felt that this could be something for me to do for once or for the first time.
EF: I enjoy how you read everything through and late as there's history involved, primarily unknown history. How do you find the sources to bring this to light?
NG: You have to be open hearted and feel that this is something that you want to tell, or focus on bringing a lot of time with them. So for this particular story, I saw an exhibition. In that exhibition, there was some great paintings, from a painter I didn't know who he was. So I wanted to know who the hell is this painter? Why didn't I know about him? This was great, great art. I felt that this art is pictures kind of staring at me, instead of me staring at the pictures. I was like okay, okay. I just had the feeling that they were looking at me, instead of me looking at the images is a strange experience.
EF: But it led to a wonderful, long effort experience. How did this painting make you want to learn more about Asksel?
NG: Yeah, I think it's something because I, of course, when I saw the pictures, I didn't know who the guy was. So I was becoming like a journalist, trying to figure out who this painter is. Then I got in touch with Haakon Mehren. He told me the story and said, “You don't know this painter Nils because nobody knows this painter. The reason is that the decision makers don't want you to see those images and that may be curious. Then he told me the story of finding the pictures and doing it for 30 years. Then I started to speak to people and tried to speak to the people that didn't like the images. I could see the passion. I could see the liberal passionate behavior and those images. Then I spoke to somebody who liked them and they say that this is art or genius. So those passionate responses, being that far away from each other might be really curious and I thought that there is a story here.
EF: I know there's like the different sides of what people think of Asksel’s work when you tie it to the history of the National Gallery. How do you balance the National Gallery, storyline and Asksel storyline?
NG: I think the National Gallery story is the narrative that's keeping the whole story together. In Norway, the National Gallery is an institution paid by the taxpayers. So their task is to take care of Norwegian art. When I discovered that they were trying to destroy this artist, then there was some k antagonistic thing. They were doing something that they weren't supposed to do. So that led me to the story behind the curtains. What I did was to try to let the audience see what's happening behind the curtains of these institutions.
EF: How would some of these institutions change more today in 2022, then how they were in the past?
NG: Strange thing, they haven't changed at all. I was wondering, how do you get art and an artist inside the National Museum? How do you do that? I was told that it's all about the art. If the art is great, they will end up there. That’s why Asksel Waldemarr hasn’t end up there. The answer was that these are not great paintings. It's about paintings. That's the reason. Then I started to talk to people and discovered that if you're extremely rich, the richest man in Norway, a guy working in shipping, he passed a whole new room in the new National Museum in Oslo. His daughters can put the pictures inside the National Museum. So I've found another guy doing the same thing. So the conclusion is that if you have enough money, you can get your paintings inside those institutions. But if you don't have money, then you can't do that. So it's questionable. If you have the money to buy you things in, you can do that, even in Norway. That's when North Korea comes in because somebody told me that if this movie had been up to North Korea, then nobody would have reacted, but it's about Norway. Norway is supposed to be a clean country without corruption. So these rich people really hate the movie. I can understand why.
EF: Yeah, I do too. How does the meaning of the spirit or essence change with the galler’s acquisition by the National Museum as mentioned at the end of the movie?
NG: I think the National Museum really contacted me before the movie came out. They tried to change a little bit of the text that we had in the beginning of the movie because they said that this can't be right. We have always been open to make this movie, but they didn't take part in the movie. I asked them if they did everything I could to get those people that are running the new museum to speak about the acts of alibi, but they didn't do that.
EF: How does your appreciation of Asksel’s works change after getting to see the other works Haakon found at the barn?
NG: I think what art should do is to evoke emotions. It doesn't necessarily have to be good emotions. It can be bad, hate or something else but I think that's what art should do.